First, I want you to know this “story” is not a story but facts as it pertains to an issue I wish non of us have to deal with… but we all do. We are supposed to be primarily GMC motorhome enthusiasts and also vintage RV interests at the least. We are here to share ideas, shoe off your coach and see what others are doing with theirs. We’re here to get help with our coaches, learn about our passion and simply get into the community and the fun these machines afford us.
This time though, we are faced with protecting the sanctity of our community. As the new exposure and this a new group of younger folks discover the GMC and how it can fit into their lives, we are also attracting those “me-my” people who see an opportunity to exploit. What I mean is using the enthusiasm and trust we assume other like minded people enjoy messing with their motorhome. We are many times defenseless to these people. I mean, someone calls you that has a GMC and is broken down near you, most enthusiasts will jump right in and help. That’s the mission of the “Black List” and what I do with my cell phone. I will answer my cell phone 24/7 within 2 rings or I will call you back. Folks have found this support to be very helpful and after doing this for over 20 years I can at least tell you what NOT to do…. I too am a GMC enthusiast and I too love to help which is where we are today….. I reached out to help someone and they for all purposed bit my arm off to the tune of over $8000.
I believed in this person, decided he needed a leg up and “paid ahead” into him for his goodwill, help and computer expertise to help us do a better job serving the community. He in turn would get our help as he travelled across the country doing his YouTube channel…. All in all it was a win/ win for us both.
I will show you documented evidence of the completed work that was done and the way this person thanked us for believing in his efforts. At the end of this I want you, if you are aware of this person to contact him to stop this process. There were illegal acts performed of which there is legal recourse and we are committed to not just get satisfaction but to expose this person. I would have never thought something like this would happen… I’ve been in this business over 20 years…. I was blindsided…
So below is a thumbnail recap of the work that was done. First it lists the invoices involved and then it’s broken down into categories to crosscheck what was done by the categories listed. You will be looking at each thing that we did on the persons coach… well not exactly, I missed charging for the engine work that was done which was actually more work done than was listed here. You can clearly see a pile of work was completed. All of this was done to help them on the road… the intention was for us to do the work so they could use the coach then through helping us out we would barter or trade off the balance in work he would do for us. As you can see, the work was done but nothing has come from him to repay his debt. We got a total of $5200.00 with the rest to be a tradeout barter… retail to his retail work for us. Here is a recap of the invoices and the work performed:
So each “category” lists the project with labor in hours (@ $80 per hour), the total $ of that labor and then the materials used listed seperatly. As you can see, there was a pile of work done with the understanding that after the $5200.00 he paid us that the balance of this work would be traded our or bartered in helping us break into the social networking game better and updating of out computer system, be out web master, etc. It would not have taken that long to get a payback in my mind and in that he had nothing he could repay us in his internet and computer talents. From the day he left our shop, he as been an aggressive opponent to us. THIS over the money, this is not about the money, it was about the cooperation and the win/ win I thought we had.
I have still offered to forgive the illegal stuff if we would just go back to our original deal and let all of you guys know it was an monstrous lack of communication on his part and that we’re buds again. Who in their right mind would forgive such nasty things done…. me if it is sincere!. So whz up! LOOK at this, and unfortunately there is more. So what are we doing now…. can someone prevail on this person to man-up? It needs to be done. My cell phone number has been the same for a decade and I still do my best to answer it in 2 rings….. it is 321-299-5707 so man, you need to call me now… can someone tell him this? Thank you, if no communication is made, there will be more here…. lets hope there’s nothing more on this…
Boy, this is getting long.. you know me, always wanting to communicate so here we were, 2 companies now unable to feel secure at doing our business… really, what would you think if your web people would not return calls, could not get onto accounts …. what would you do to secure your companies? Whats more, I had just paid ahead, invested in, supported or whatever you want to cal it… how about sponsored this guy and now I don;t know WHAT he’s doing with a pile of my stuff and a pile of investment money!
(BTW, I have the invoices listed above scanned and can post them to see the breakdown when needed, I think right now this is enough for you to see all of this work was completed on his coach)
I continued to try and reach out to this guy, tried through some folks who knew him to little to no response. After I think 2 months we got back our file.. after sending a self addressed envelope.. I’m not sure if we got back the thumbdrive of professionally taken stills and video belonging also to the comapany. Since then I have tried my best to get any dialog with this guy.
Getting no where and now having a new year and a new push at the shop, expansion, a partner, new workers it was decided to up our seeking a dialog with this person so I appealed to the GMC community as well as the full timer forum to pressure this person to contact me… took some time but thanks guys, it worked and below in black print was his response to me with in blue the response I sent back to him.
Now remember, to this point, I had not been contacted in any way about ANYTHING at all. Put yourself in my shoes as I got this post and the responses I gave:
pasteing this info, it did not bring over the color… I’ll go back through and add my response in blue to his response in red… wish me luck
Per your request, I am listing reasons I am disatisfied with work completed at your motor vehicle repair shop and overall service experience.
1. As a mechanical novice I entered into a motor vehicle transaction of a 1975 GMC Kingsley Dream Coach motorhome based completely on advice provided by you on mechanical condition and cost of repairs needed to make motorhome long trip road worthy. You were asked before purchase and after prepurchase inspection if motor vehicle could be made long trip road worthy with operational fridge, generator and water system for a budget of $5,000. Your response was the coach was in great shape and that we could certainly get this GMC motorhome ready for a budget of $5000 and possibly for as little as $3500. Decision to purchase was made entirely on this information with confidence in your advice by having completed a prepurchase inspection and presenting yourself as an expert having specialized in motor vehicle repairs on this specific motor vehicle for 22 years/ I would not have made this purchase if you had said otherwisw.
WAIT, I knew you could not pay for what the coach needed…. I made the decision to “pay forward”, invest in you and the things you could help us with. This was not a “retail” repair from the beginning! I first told you everything would be a total net cost to help you try and pay for it all. When I saw even at that deal, you could not afford what the coach needed I proposed the agreement change to a total barter system. Rither way you would be getting a super deal and this way at least the value of the work we did could be acknowledged. I mean you were supposed to help us and the community anyway…. Figured I could afford to give you a leg up on your plan. You have so many novice misconceptions about the vintage RV world and what the GMC would need make be reliable and keep it maintained. I offered that arrangement to you which could be seen as way over and above any moral, ethical or legal obligation.
Your motor vehicle repair shop never provided a written estimate of cost of work to be completed. prior to beginning work nor did you have me sign a waiver of being provided a written estimate of work to be completed. Then during the motor vehicle repairs twice I brought up my concerns in the costs of work being completed and your response to me was that you would have me out the gate on time and on budget. You then presented me an invoice in excess of double of that number without having discussed it ever being more than $5000.
You promised me a discount on labor from your normal shop rate of $80 an hour to an amount of $50 per hour. You also promised me cost on parts. You presented me an invoice at $50 an hour at the end of repairs the day before I was leaving. And then when I came to give you payment and to retrieve my coach you had your secretary hand me an invoice at $80 per hour and no discount on parts.
Here, I see our problem….. You have misunderstood what the fair barter arrangement meant and how it works. Sure, if I was going to “give” you everything that I ended up doing for you THAT would be really bad business discussion on my part, not just a helping hand to you but a loosing hand for me. Helping you afford to get out on the road with a 40 year old motor home and have relative safety and reliability and the fact that I would be essentially traveling with you would clearly be a great situation for you.
The cost per hour when considering a barter arrangement would always be different. Barter means both parties exchange goods and services at a fair and equal rate. Me bartering at my cost to your retail… well, is that fair? And in the end if you pulled away from my shop not paying out more at that time that you figured on and me “holding” the rest of the paper and offering to trade that out for your services…. Brother in my book that is a very gracious offer … at WHAT ever the labor cost was.
See what I mean, there is no procedure for a barter system in our first arrangement. I am registered with the state of Florida with an approved estimate and invoice procedure. Yes, I did not get an estimate to you… you were watching daily
everything we were doing… you were living free for the first month or so on my property and I didn’t see it important in that we had partnered together. I guess I should have also not offered you to live on my property at all. Being technical you can’t even screw in a light bulb today!
If you are saying you are ignoring your moral and ethical commitment to someone who, up front believed and trusted in you…. So be it. Not acknowledging this win/win arrangement after all you received…. The generous donation from someone, a generous offer from me to help your dreams come true and the negative reinforcement you are spreading about the GMC and my business… well that’s just not right.
Below are the issues I have had with the work your shop completed on my coaDuring head job ch.
-Flange nut on brake lines left loose that allowed all brake fluid out of rear breaking system. Causing rear braking system to fail.
To my knowledge you were on a “shakedown” cruise going south before you headed north. You as well as everyone is always told to do that and suspect anything that had been done. Your entire brake system was replaced…. As Jeff explained to me that the fitting going in to the rear brake hose was a little loose… it was no big deal and in the scheme of things thats something you might expect to see.
-Unable to switch over to Aux tank following replacement of fuel system. Another mechanic diagnosed this problem as the vent line being crossed with fuel line from rear tank.
AGAIN, this was a shakedown cruise… your entire fuel system was taken apart and it all needed proving it’s integrity… why didn’t you simply give me a call. I WOULD HAVE PAID Jeff to fix the brake line and do a test of the fuel system. You decided to not work within the plan, call me with any issues and pay for someone to second guess the issues… guess that was your decision. Too bad.
-During top end rebuild mechanic found cross threaded bolt in headers that were put on at your shop and headers had not been touched by anyone else.
Who is to say somewhere before we got to the motor cross threaded it. When the work was done, we were doing the bare minimum needed to get you on the road. The head work we did was the least needed to get the motor back together. BTW, looking through the invoices of the work we did, I didn’t charge you for any of the head work… parts or labor on any of the invoices, screwed myself there…. Guess I missed giving that to you. You did not bring it back to us to understand the issues so by having someone else go in to our work without our knowledge you have destroyed the line of documented custody of the work. Again, you should have called us right away. Our state approved warranty… that is if you want to go by the letter of the law is only a stated in house warranty as every other mechanic offers. If you go in messing with anything a mechanic does there is now that “plausible deniability” that comes with not communicating… you made the decision to do that. Giving no one a say, how can you expect them to be responsible or to help you out. That is also on you for the way you handled that
–During under coating completed at your shop, the under coating ended up on coach paint job in multiple locations.
We probably also left a foot print on your carpet, a grease stain on the hood. How terrible, after as much work as we did on your coach and the short money you gave me for it…. If you asked us to clean a spot on your 30 something year old exterior we would have been happy to do it… not bringing it back to us made it your issue. Can’t help you if you don’t contact me…
-Side rails were pulled off and redone to correct significant leak behind drivers side chair and not 3 months later coach is leaking in the exact same location..
Ask anyone with a GMC… they produce leaks. It has a body with moving expansion joints. If you take a swail or pothole too hard, hit a big bump, park on an angle for any length of time you can create a leak. If it leaks in the same place as you reported THAT would be the spot that the flexing body allows to leak first. On my state approved invoice I state in clear red letters at the bottom of every invoice wether I do water leak repair or not. “Body leaks are on a best as basis, there is no warranty for water leaks”. Anyone who understands what a GMC is, how it’s built and what you should be vigilant of would know that you will forever live with water leaks and to be very careful. Did you hit any bad potholes during your trip?
,I believe that my declining to comment on the work completed on my coach is in your best interest.
Oh but that’s not true… you HAVE made comments and I take that personally. In fact your comments on the internet are what made me pursue you. I was actually OK with just writing you off as a bad experience and you someone who just does not get it and can be trusted, that was my mistake. I responded because of what you are spreading about my business and me.
After the actual illegal act of stealing my personal and business information then being untruthful with the IRS and not listening to what I told you not to do… I think you really need to not stand on the legal aspect of this. You did not pay me for the services rendered either with money or with a barter. Now, where does that place you in the court of public scrutiny?
As for you saying that I owe you money, Florida state law says otherwise. Please view link below.
Really? Does that mean you feel no obligation after me believing in you and that we could barter together and have a win/win for both of us? You want to shirk your moral and ethical obligation and pull that on me? Did that shadetree mechanic over in the panhandle get from you a signed estimate from you and did you sign off on the work he did? Did he charge you for the time you changed your oil? He had to have permitted oil and filter disposal plus his insurance liability? Did you cross all those t’s on that mechanical transaction? Is he even registered with the state to do mechanical repair? Did you refuse to pay him… oh that’s right, you paid him whatever he asked in full when the work was done. Guess I should have done that with you. I didn’t know I could not trust you to uphold your end of the bargain.
OK, so I’ve given you a complete time line from my perspective on our relationship… I have read and responded to your post and now it’s my turn:
So maybe I’m wrong and the past 18 years of catering to a niche industry where everything is in the open. Maybe I should have treated you like a regular customer getting boiler plates signed and not allow you to stay on our property while the work on your coach was being performed… Afterall, that IS proper procedure. Maybe I should have not offered our shower and our shop to you and your girlfriend, maybe I should not have gotten you a job with my contacts to help you, maybe I should have gone by the letter of the law and charged you the cost that I need to keep my lights on and not offered you a huge discount, even offering you a better deal that fit your situation all to support you and your efforts.
OK so here are some specific questions I have for you:
1. Why did you take our corporate knowledge as it pertains to
web sites, Emails, Facebook and YouTube passwords and user name files for 2 businesses and did not communicate to us after repeatedly reaching out to you about that information?
2. Why did you not communicate to us when your shake down reveled a couple of issues?
3. Why did you continue to report to the IRS that your home address was my Mothers house address?
I am most interested in your response to these and probably some other questions but lets start there.
I feel compelled to allow the “court of public opinion” to judge the actions here. Since what you are continuing to do is effecting the publics opinion of me and my business.
It doesn’t seem to me I will ever get a per dollar equivalent from you for the work we did, I would however insist you stop slander of me and my business on social media. Furthermore, stop looking at all the bad things in your coach and start promoting positive life experiences having to do with the motor home. Isn’t your motto ‘stop world suck”? Practice it.
I can’t give you any ideas but find a spin of the things you have said that supports us. After being in this business over 20 years you will find it much more rewarding to be a supporter. It would also be nice if you would call me and start back on the both supporting each other…
Now, depending on your response to my outreach will tell me what to do with this information. I feel folks on the social media deserve an accurate and complete account of what has transpired… don’t you? If you have some contrasting view you feel you would like me try and believe hey, I’m all ears. What’s it going to be brother…. You really need to talk to me.
You need to respond to this post, you will have to tell me what to do with this information. If we cannot come to an understanding I feel it will need to be posted on my web site as defense for the things you have taken from and said about my in social media. If you don’t care or think folks will feel the things you are doing is OK, then just let things go and don’t respond. If you want to try and communicate with me in a meaningful way I am waiting…. I would say by Wednesday morning would be enough time.
So now it’s all in your court, I am continuing to try and keep an open mind but after your post and what I have documented here I really feel you have some issues to clear up to go forward. You know my number, my text, my Email, my Facebook… heck I don’t even know all that. You need to Email or call me. I think first documenting the response with Email would be proper.
Talk to you then…
OK, so now… what do you think he said to all of this? I think I took great care to lay out everything in a way he should understand if there was some global misunderstanding and would man up and talk to me… try and somehow get back to that win/win we first sought or at least I though we had found. If that were the case you would think I would get at least some path open to a dialog… wouldn;t you? Ok, so here is the response I got back and let me quote this:
“Exactly what do you want from me”
WHAT DO I WANT FROM YOU? How about everything I entrusted you with that you ran off with… for a start and maybe we won’t prosicute you! OK, digest this new information please….. put yourself in my shoes then back into yours. If you like the way the GMC community is helping you enjoy your classic coach … understand there are carpet baggers entering our community and we need to protect our interests. You full timer forum folks…. is this the emesarry you want to hold up as representative of your community? Is this how you guys intend on repaying the welcoming community in front of you? I had one of yours come by last week, a gal full timing in a GMC with her 2 small dogs…. she is loving life and learning more about her coach every day. I treated her no different than I did this other guys… if she were asked I think she would agree that me having ideas to take from my customers or mislead anyone in any way is insane! This is not how I have built my image in this community for over 20 years. Do stuff like that and you will not last long in a tight community as this. I have those out there that may not like me as much as others but I sdon;t think even they will not agree I am a man of my word. I was wronged by someone posing himself as wanting to help us. There is an ethical, moral and simply a personal obligation to follow through. When your handshake is no good… well we should just all pack it up!
OK, so nopw… in blowing miles of verbeage… I need your help, if you know about this issue and the person I am talking about… will you call him, post him on his YouTube channel, text, Email or whatever…. convince him to do the right thing before this further out of hand. I am simply asking him to tell all of you that he totally misunderstood and that he wants to fulfill his commitment to me and in reality to the GMC community to represent us all and expost the full timer community to the attributed of the GMC motorhome in their environment… and not a place to rip people off and take advantage of our good nature. This is an appeal to the court of public opinion…. make this right!
If this does not work, we will have to get seriously farther and any of us can pull it back. There are issues here that need addressing… please help.
So there was a question, “Did I respond back to his (So exactly what do you want from me?” . Thanks for asking and yes… you obviously know me, I want to try and work things out still with James. I just can’t understand why he continues to do what he is. Tell ya what, if one of you can ask him to tell me what’s on his mind or even you tell me what’s on his mind. It’s beyond me why given rational information rational people can’t come up with some good answers.
Anyway, here is the post I sent back to him:
.Jim you know
I didn’t steal anything and that no hacking has occured.
Please keep grounded. I am awaiting your response.
On Feb 27, 2016 7:18 AM,
You know James, it all
does boil down to that doesn’t it. To give you a fair
and complete answer to that question and in that you
obviously want to use this documenting format as opposed to
confronting it in person which would be very easy for you to
do right now… personally I would have thought you would
have recognized your errors and manned up and came to see me
or at the least call me. Let me gather some thoughts to
write down and I’ll get back to you with that soon. In
the meantime you may want to make a decision on what spin if
your going to try and get out of this on your own that would
make internal personal and corporate hacking and not just
copying but actual theft of access to all corporate files of
2 companies possibly making them vulnerable and unsecure.
You did that…. so let me think about “exactly WHAT I
want to make all that plus you know so much more in negative
press not to mention not following through with a huge
answering you question is pretty complicate. So you think
about your optional and whether the easiest way out may
actually to do the right thing…. project the fact you are
human, that misunderstands and miscommunication is the
hardest part of life and admitting you are human and making
a mistake does not mean for sure you are just another
E begger or rip-off people that are our there and are only
out for themselves. You need to find an ally while you
hang there over a pit of hot tar. Think of your options
and how you can keep your image in your community from
slipping into the abyss.
It may be tomorrow but as I said,
let me get back to you. Oh, and keep this post because it
too can be evidence. U would think by this time you would be
smarter than to leave a document trail. See, even being
the object of your frustration right now, I may be your best
hope. Thanks for the post and I’ll get right back to
Guys, call James out on this, you can’t be a part of this community and pull off stuff like this without making it right. Certainly not a part of the GMC community, we will not put up with it and unless I’m wrong, the full timer group can’t see this is a proper way to treat a community member. I really feel you guys too have an obligation to the rest of us to not have someone treat us like this. Come on man, you need to call me…. guys, it may be up to you…..